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  1. Location : Northern Virginia
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    Please school me on the HK53!

    Howdy gang:

    I have an incoming HK53, eventually that is, a Form 3 process and then Form 4 process are in the way first, and wanted to know what to expect and what to stock up on ahead of time (parts, ammo, mags, etc.)

    It is a Terry Dyer HK 93 conversion that is new since conversion and I am so stoked! This will be my first HK MG (and likely my last unless I win the lottery or something) so now I finally belong here on the HKPro NFA board. So some questions:

    1) What are these guns like to shoot and maintain?

    2) Reliabilty and accuracy?

    3) Ammo preferences?

    4) Spare parts to get (extra bolt carrier, bolt head, rollers, etc.?)

    5) Anything to look out for?

    6) Why were they discontinued?

    I have scoured the interweb and done a search on HKPRo but have not found all that much about these guns. Any info. you can provide is deeply appreciated!

    Thanks!

    Magdump

  2. Desperately Needs Treatment

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    Congrats on the purchase!

    1. They are fun as hell to shoot. Basic maintenance goes along way (like any gun)

    2. Very reliable if everything was done correctly in the conversion. I forget whos conversion it was but some time the recoil spring was underpowered. Its not the most accurate gun in the world (8.3in is less than optimal for a 5.56mm round) but hitting human size targets with iron sights at 100 yards is easy (haven't shot mine past that).

    3. Depends on your locking piece in the bolt group & barrel. #15 will handle 55gr and some can shoot anything with it, but #3 is used for 62gr & heavier ammo. Check your twist rate on the barrel. Should be either 1:7 or 1:12 and that should settle your ammo choices and corresponding locking piece


    4. Extractor, Extractor spring, roller retainers, stock pins, ejector spring,

    5. Should be good to go, but like i said watch the recoil spring if any problems arise.

    6. Since H&K never brought a 53 to the USA for civilian sales and when these conversions were done 53 parts were non existant, the conversions were expensive and it is still a niche market. There probably other reasons as well.


  3. Location : Southern New Hampshire
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    If it is a converted 93 then it would have a 1/12 twist rate barrel. My understanding is that the 1/12 barrel won't stabilize bullets heavier than 55 grain. Even then with the short barrel, accuracy might be an issue. Rim Country made some 1/7 twist rate 53 barrels from hammer forged blanks. I think that all the factory 53 barrels are 1/7 twist. Once you get to shoot it, you'll have more of an idea. Once your dealer receives the gun, I'd make it a point to shoot it. If there are any problems, your dealer could send it off to an HK smith for repair while you are waiting for the Form 4 transfer. Congratulations on your purchase. Has the 53 host been registered as a SBR? If not, you might want to have that done before transfer to you. Then you'll have a clean Form 4 for the sear. I don't know how quick you plan to get other hosts, but a Manufacturer can register an SBR with a Form 2, which is very quick. As compared to you transferring the gun to you (5 months) plus filing a Form 1 (another 5 months).

    Scott



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    Search the archives to learn how to measure the bolt gap, it's very easy. Note what it is when received. Also, there are two different ejectors that can be used. One is shorter in length - a true 53. I had a Vector 53P that needed the #3 locking piece with 55gr ammo.

    Just sold it & replaced it with a Vector 53K which only has a 5" barrel. I'm using the shorter ejector in it.

    Congrats!


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    While the HK 90 sears guns are no longer first line military weapons for many countries, due to changes in manufacturing (i.e. cast aluminum and plastic), change in military doctrine (i.e. 5.56 vs 308), lighter rifles, who's paying for what (i.e. US supplies of M16s) the HK 90 series still work well and the module system nature of the roller lock HK90 sears guns combined with the existence of registered sears in the USA make them a perfect choice for NFA shooters, with the only other system coming close being the M16 based guns and DIAS. Note the Uzi does fine for pistol calibers, but one really ends up passing on all the gun stuff ... belt feed rifle rounds at several hundred years to beyond ;-) http://www.issmc.com/50bmg

    Due to module system of the HK 90 series, assuming your HK53 is a sear gun, once you have the host HK53 papered as a short barreled rifle (assuming you are not in Michigan or a similar state that does not allow short barreled rifles - in which case I would think of trading the HK53 for a clone in pistol configuration) then you can move your sear in it's trigger back to a different "HK" (German or clone) hosts by changing the ejector (caliber dependent) and hammer strut spring (rifle or pistol). The other hosts of great interest (myself never met a HK host that I did not like) are the 9mm MP5 (aka HK94 with 16" barrel) or MP5K (aka SP89), the larger 223 hosts (a 33K, HK93 and of course the 23e belt feed - see photos) and for some the 308 hosts (aka HK91, G3K and the US created 51 and now 51K!). For clones there is also the 32/52 series in 7.62x39 that currently one is trying to follow me home ;-). Video on 7.62x39 "HK"32/52 with drum http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4ML...er_profilepage

    Older HK53s sometimes take a little bit more TLC due to the lack of factory correct parts in the old days for conversions. You ejector maybe either the longer HK93 or the shorter late model HK53, and you end up using what ever works. The recoil spring and rod is often semi custom being a cut down HK93 assemble, thus dropping in a current factor correct recoil rod and spring assemble may or may not work, same for bolt carrier (not the recoil rod / bolt carrier can/do effect each other).

    I would get a couple extractor springs, as these tend to bend (act like a fuse more or less) when something goes wrong during shooting. Any movement by finger of the installed extractor probably indicates you need to replace the spring (when you take it out, do so by by rotating with a punch, then if the parallel two wires have a bend/kink in them, then you need to replaced the spring or if you are in a bind you can straighten for short term usage). When cleaning pay attention to the extractor groove and if needed carefully clean the grove with a probe.

    For parts check out Adam at http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/home.asp, RTG at http://www.robertrtg.com/ plus Gordon at http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/ and several others

    When cleaning get a chamber face brush and chamber brush from E&L at http://www.elmfg.com/store/brushes.html However, in a bind you can get by with a M16 chamber brush at first. You will need to check a few FAQs and learn how to take you bolt group apart and put it back together (if you are near Indiana or Michigan (family) let me know and we can get together if needed). Besides the excellent articles on HKPro a FAQ on HK roller luck guns is at: http://www.robertrtg.com/g3qa.html. Note when cleaning you will sooner or later find the roller plate broken and need to change it (the rollers fall out when you take it apart but you can actually run with out the plate if needed, assuming nothing catches inside when the plate breaks ;-).

    At the start would shoot ammo of a known good quality M193 ammo, Federal American Eagle (red box), Federal Lake City in the 20 round packs (I stay away from the bulk pack since there are known issues of over pressure), packaged IMI, Winchester Q3131(A) and any good first line NATO crossed ammo (i.e. German). Stay away from Remington discount ammo (low power) and until you know you twist rate, hold off on the SS109/M855 with it's heavier bullets. Note once you have a working gun, several of us have had great luck with tons of Wolf FMJ, in particular in the belt guns.

    To adjust the sights (an inch or two high at 100 yards with the 200 meter hole is not bad for a 53, making it dead on at 25 yards will typically put you too high out farther), you need some way to pinch in the two rear sight plungers, a small set of hemostats work better for me than the factory tool. See http://www.issmc.com/jt/images/hk_notes/index.html which also has a few photos on measuring bolt gap.


    As a HK roller lock gun wears the bolt gap goes down and one changes the rollers to adjust. Checking the bolt gap is a good thing to do when having issues, when you first get the fun for a base line and every few years or half dozen cases of ammo ;-). Besides the excellent articles on HKPro a FAQ on HK roller luck guns is at: http://www.robertrtg.com/g3qa.html and see.


    IMO the MP5, HK53 and HK23e are the reason to own a HK sear or trigger pack!
    Last edited by JTinIN; 09-10-2011 at 05:40 PM.


  6. Location : Northern Virginia
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    Thanks for the info. so far guys!

  7. Desperately Needs Treatment

    Location : Somewhere out there
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    Hot damn! that's the one of the best replies I've seen....

    Originally Posted by JTinIN
    While the HK 90 sears guns are no longer first line military weapons for many countries, due to changes in manufacturing (i.e. cast aluminum and plastic), change in military doctrine (i.e. 5.56 vs 308), lighter rifles, who's paying for what (i.e. US supplies of M16s) the HK 90 series still work well and the module system nature of the roller lock HK90 sears guns combined with the existence of registered sears in the USA make them a perfect choice for NFA shooters, with the only other system coming close being the M16 based guns and DIAS. Note the Uzi does fine for pistol calibers, but one really ends up passing on all the gun stuff ... belt feed rifle rounds at several hundred years to beyond ;-) Half Inch Plus Cubed

    Due to module system of the HK 90 series, assuming your HK53 is a sear gun, once you have the host HK53 papered as a short barreled rifle (assuming you are not in Michigan or a similar state that does not allow short barreled rifles - in which case I would think of trading the HK53 for a clone in pistol configuration) then you can move your sear in it's trigger back to a different "HK" (German or clone) hosts by changing the ejector (caliber dependent) and hammer strut spring (rifle or pistol). The other hosts of great interest (myself never met a HK host that I did not like) are the 9mm MP5 (aka HK94 with 16" barrel) or MP5K (aka SP89), the larger 223 hosts (a 33K, HK93 and of course the 23e belt feed - see photos) and for some the 308 hosts (aka HK91, G3K and the US created 51 and now 51K!). For clones there is also the 32/52 series in 7.62x39 that currently one is trying to follow me home ;-). Video on 7.62x39 "HK"32/52 with drum Picture 504.MOV - YouTube

    Older HK53s sometimes take a little bit more TLC due to the lack of factory correct parts in the old days for conversions. You ejector maybe either the longer HK93 or the shorter late model HK53, and you end up using what ever works. The recoil spring and rod is often semi custom being a cut down HK93 assemble, thus dropping in a current factor correct recoil rod and spring assemble may or may not work, same for bolt carrier (not the recoil rod / bolt carrier can/do effect each other).

    I would get a couple extractor springs, as these tend to bend (act like a fuse more or less) when something goes wrong during shooting. Any movement by finger of the installed extractor probably indicates you need to replace the spring (when you take it out, do so by by rotating with a punch, then if the parallel two wires have a bend/kink in them, then you need to replaced the spring or if you are in a bind you can straighten for short term usage). When cleaning pay attention to the extractor groove and if needed carefully clean the grove with a probe.

    For parts check out Adam at HKParts | Heckler & Koch Genuine Parts - HKPARTS.NET, RTG at Gun Parts - RTG International Surplus Gun Parts and Militaria plus Gordon at HK Specialist - Home Page and several others

    When cleaning get a chamber face brush and chamber brush from E&L at E&L Manufacturing e.Store - Cleaning Brushes However, in a bind you can get by with a M16 chamber brush at first. You will need to check a few FAQs and learn how to take you bolt group apart and put it back together (if you are near Indiana or Michigan (family) let me know and we can get together if needed). Besides the excellent articles on HKPro a FAQ on HK roller luck guns is at: HK 91 & G3 Question & Answer Page!. Note when cleaning you will sooner or later find the roller plate broken and need to change it (the rollers fall out when you take it apart but you can actually run with out the plate if needed, assuming nothing catches inside when the plate breaks ;-).

    At the start would shoot ammo of a known good quality M193 ammo, Federal American Eagle (red box), Federal Lake City in the 20 round packs (I stay away from the bulk pack since there are known issues of over pressure), packaged IMI, Winchester Q3131(A) and any good first line NATO crossed ammo (i.e. German). Stay away from Remington discount ammo (low power) and until you know you twist rate, hold off on the SS109/M855 with it's heavier bullets. Note once you have a working gun, several of us have had great luck with tons of Wolf FMJ, in particular in the belt guns.

    To adjust the sights (an inch or two high at 100 yards with the 200 meter hole is not bad for a 53, making it dead on at 25 yards will typically put you too high out farther), you need some way to pinch in the two rear sight plungers, a small set of hemostats work better for me than the factory tool. See HK Notes and Accessories which also has a few photos on measuring bolt gap.


    As a HK roller lock gun wears the bolt gap goes down and one changes the rollers to adjust. Checking the bolt gap is a good thing to do when having issues, when you first get the fun for a base line and every few years or half dozen cases of ammo ;-). Besides the excellent articles on HKPro a FAQ on HK roller luck guns is at: HK 91 & G3 Question & Answer Page! and see.


    IMO the MP5, HK53 and HK23e are the reason to own a HK sear or trigger pack!

  8. Desperately Needs Treatment

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    Thanks for the kind words, but you really need to look up G3K as he has many great postings on the roller lock vs modern gas systems that have the insight of dozens of years experience working in/with HK. The gas systems can take a wider range of loads, while with the roller lock you have to adjust by changing the locking piece (which is not really a great battle field option). However, for the US with the '86 NFA changes, one's options are HK Roller Lock or M16, possible with newer gas piston uppers (the Shrike was a lot cleaner firing, until I put a can on it ;-)

    The HK93 is a little heavy by modern standards, but for full auto shooting, I tend to use a HBAR on the M16A1, so not really a factor, besides my favorite for 223 full auto (this year until the MM23eK shows up) is the HK53. The HK91 is none too heavy on full and really needs a good muzzle brake ... but that is another thread.


  10. Location : Fairfax, Virginia
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    I own a 53 and can tell you one thing.... Do not use the collapsible stock when you shoot it. Get the fixed stock and it is a ton more fun to shoot.

    Since the barrel is much shorter.... It is not really a reach out and touch someone kinda gun. I see it as more close up and personal with a more powerful punch than the 9mm round.

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